Okay Momentum Generation… this is your place to ask questions. If you have some theological questions, please ask your question in the comment box. We will be checking this page before and after the conference and seeking to respond in the best way we can.
So, start asking away…
In the Trinity, is the Father the above authority over the Son and the Holy Spirit? In Matthew 24:36: “No one knows the day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.(NIV) If Jesus is fully God, then how can he not know what the Father knows?
Has anybody read The Shack by Paul Young? What do you guys think about it? Do you think it accurately portrays who God is?
Does the tribulation begin immediately or upon the rapture of the church or is there a time span between the rapture and the tribulation?
Good stuff, let’s start firing away!! You know the rules: keep it civil (no eye gouging, etc.), have fun ask, answer, weigh in as you’d like to. These will be addressed in some fashion at momentum.
Is “the rapture” just a theory? Will all Christians be taken before the end times, or are we going to have to sit out God’s wrath on earth? And how about the Trinity and jesus not fully knowing everything when he was on earth…doesn’t that make him unequal with God the father therefore not God?
What are thoughts on the emergent/emerging church?
Hey guys, I am one of the people who will be helping to answer the questions that are posted here. I’ll be checking the site each day, and we will make sure that each question gets a response. I’ll post again later, but I thought I would start by responding to the first question.
The Trinity
There definitely does seem to be a biblical dynamic in which the Son submits to the Father. This is clear from several passages (some examples are Luke 22:42, John 5:19, and John 6:38). Some may argue that Jesus only said these things because he had taken on humanity. However, the Bible teaches that the Son of God has been the Son from all eternity. While he did take on flesh at a given point in time, this did not change the Father-Son relationship within the Trinity. It has always existed.
A problem that we run into with this idea is that we think that there must be some level of inferiority in the Son if he is submitting to the Father. However, this is a wrong conclusion on our part. It is more a difference in role than a difference in value. It is not that the Father is the real God and the Son is a sub-God. The Son is completely equal with the Father (and the Holy Spirit) as a member of the Godhead (John 1:1-4, John 10:30, Colossians 1:15-20, Hebrews 1:1-4, Revelation 1:17-20). But the members of the Trinity function in such a way that they do not all do the exact same thing. They have diversity within their unity. Therefore Jesus is not inferior as he submits to the Father. He is simply interacting in love with the other members of the Godhead. The Father does the same by glorifying the Son (John 17:5, Philippians 2:9-11). The Son does the same by honoring the Holy Spirit (John 16:7). The members interact in perfect love with one another. Each honors the other, and none seeks his own interests. They exist, and have always existed, in perfect love and harmony.
I know that The Shack was also brought up. Different people have responded differently to the book. I think this response has addressed some of the issues associated with it.
As is true of any book, we must be discerning and go back to Scripture in order to evaluate what is being taught. The Shack certainly is a powerful representation of the Trinitarian relationship. In many respects it appears to be very accurate. However, we must view everything through the grid of Scripture. There are different statements that are made in the book that could be interpreted one way or another. In these cases it is important to look through the grid of Scripture to understand them rightly. When we do this, we can take the statements that are made and either agree with them, disagree with them, or agree with them in part.
I have a few questions… What changed all the Jews and soldiers minds when they were about to “take him” (Jesus)? John 7:30 – “Therefore they sought to take Him; but no one laid a hand on Him, because His hour had not yet come.” There are more places where John includes this detail. Were the Jews afraid to take Him?
Second question… The more I read, the more I question predestination. I know God doesn’t just say, “I want you, you, you, but not you.” I definitely know that. I read things like Matthew 11:27 and Romans 8:29-30 (“… and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” and “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son… And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.”) though, and I don’t know what to think. Is it wrong to believe that God has predestined your salvation?
Third question… Several times in the Bible it talks about the dead rising from the dust and the ground during the time of the tribulation. Aren’t they already in Heaven? If so, why would they need to rise from the dust? Are they taking on their old forms for judgement day or something?
Just a quick comment on The Shack… Personally, I thought it was cool to see God in a different aspect. Sometimes, I think we all get caught up in the idea that God is this big, powerful, overlord that we worship because that’s what we’re supposed to do… Which is so not the picture I want to have of God! The Shack pictures God being a sweet, loving black woman, which was great for me in a few senses. It gives a picture of how LOVING God is!!! Loving in a fatherly way, but also a motherly way. He’s also caring, and He creates beauty! He is the essense of beauty! We forget that God made man and woman in His image, which means He has the attributes of man and woman. He’s a strong, powerful man (not saying God is man) that would protect us no matter what the cost, and He’s also a loving, caring, beautiful, and beauty creating woman (not saying God is a woman). God is EVERYTHING and more. He is Yahweh.
Others might totally disagree with me, but it’s just my opinion.
Emergent Church: Here is some brief thoughts I have:
Positives: Love the desire for authenticity, they are hungry for real! Have an Acts 17:11 mentality (“the Bereans searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was true”), the desire deep community where they are known and where they can intimately know others. They seem to have huge hearts for their communities and being involved with what is happening in the world.
Negatives: Sometimes forgets to remember the saints who have gone before them. At times I’ve seen an arrogance and an attitude that says, “we do Church right!” Can be a “all passion, no action” mentality.
Bottom Line: So many great things going on with the emergent movement. I think if some of the arrogance would be purged the level of credability within the Church would multiply. Pride is universal but that does not make it excusable. “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble” If there was an attitude of “we appreciate the church of yesterday and want to be relevant to the culture of today” I think it would pay huge dividends. Just some thoughts
Also, what about the history of how the Church has swung the pendulum of God’s immanence (His closeness) and Transcendence (majestic, high and lifted up)? Is the emerging Church a swing in our theology proper? Just a thought?
Rapture and Tribulation
So, a couple questions have emerged about the rapture and the tribulation. This is going to be one of those issues that will not be answered in full here. I will throw out some thoughts and passages.
As many of you may know, there are different understandings of what the Bible teaches about the rapture and the tribulation. The word “rapture” never appears in the Bible (but neither does the word “Trinity”). Some people believe that the Bibles teaches that God will rapture (snatch out) the church (all believers) before a 7-year tribulation period begins. This is the pre-tribulation theory. To answer one question, this belief does not necessarily mean that the 7 years begins the minute that the rapture takes place. There could possibly be a short transition period.
Other people believe that believers will go through the tribulation, and then Christ will return to judge and usher in paradise. This is the post-tribulation theory.
These two are the most common theories, but there are others. Some believe that believers will be raptures after the first three and a half years (mid-tribulation theory). Some others believe that believers will be around for part of the rapture, until God’s wrath begins to be poured out. Then believers will be raptured (pre-wrath theory).
Here are some questions that surround the issue:
1) If believers go through the tribulation, are they suffering God’s wrath? Isn’t is true that believers are saved from God’s wrath through Christ?
2) Does the Bible teach that Christ’s second coming has different stages? Is there a rapture where Christ kind of comes back, and then a real second coming after the tribulation?
3) What is the purpose of the tribulation?
4) If the church was not raptured before the tribulation, then couldn’t believers count the seven years and know exactly when Christ would return? Doesn’t this contradict the biblical teaching that no one knows when he is coming, and that it could be at any moment?
5) Is God obligated to remove believers before the tribulation? He has given us trials and difficulties in our lives for a purpose, so why would he not choose to also have us go through this most difficult time?
6) Does the Bible give any indication of how believers are to respond to teachings about the tribulation and the end times?
Here are some passages:
Daniel 9:24-27
Matthew 24-25
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
2 Thessalonians 2
2 Peter 3:3-10
1 John 2:28-3:3
Revelation 6-19
Have fun. Feel free to throw out some follow-up questions, or to berate me for giving such an inferior answer.
End Times
We should ask ourselves, why did God give us a glimpse into the end time events? Was it to develop a time line and figure out every detail, developing labels by which we can further draw dividing lines in the body of Christ?
Here is a thought not so much on the tribulation but about tribulation in general. We Americans have not suffered like Christians have through the centuries and like Chirstians now are all over the world. So my question is “Are you ready to suffer for Christ?” Are you ready to step into trial and tribulations for his name’s sake?” We often come to Jesus so he will make our life better – but what if you accept him and then all hell breaks loose in your life? You get kicked out of school, lose your job, and have your family taken away from you? Your own brother threatens to kill you if you don’t renounce him. That is what a lot of new converts get – I have seen it – and they stay faithful. Would you?
In the Gospel of John 14:22,23 Jesus says:”if you love me you will keep my commandments.” One of these commandments ,if you will, is in the previous chapter vs. 5. How does this relate to us today? We can be humble with one another, I suppose. Some denominations literally do this
Emergent Church / Postmodernism
Hello all, Ryan and Dan asked me to help give thoughtful responses to some of the questions being brought up. I thought I would respond to the emergent church question becuase of my expereince in college campus ministries.
Obviously nothing is new to our Lord, “I am the same yesterday, today and forever.” That goes for His character and our sin. As humanity we struggle with the same sin as in ancient days, Ecclesiastes “there is nothing new under the sun,” yet it is contextualized differently in every generation. We must admit humanity has not changed at the heart level throughout the ages, and if we are humans, then the ‘emergent generation’ struggles with the same heart condition as the church 1000 years ago.
My question back to the audience is; What drives our generation? Why do we call ourselves the ‘emergent’ church? What does the word ‘emergent’ mean to us? What are we ‘emerging’ from? Why do we question the traditions of the past? Why do we desire to do things differently?
Let’s dig deep into those questions from the audience, it is kind of like getting to know ourselves. What IS the cultural air we breathe? Let’s find these answers first, that will help us determine WHO WE ARE and then we can find proper answers.
I agree with Ryan’s earlier comment on our desire for authenticity within church models and worship in our generation. But, there is definitely more present in our generation than this desire. There is also anger, frustration and confusion which brings us dangerously close to possible rebellion. When we look at scripture we must look at certain scriptures like in Proverbs “Do not remove an ancient cornerstone set up by our forefathers.”
What do you think this verse means? Do we submit completely? Do we submit a little? Do we submit to only some things? Maybe we don’t submit at all, but just remember?
Here is the last question I’ll ask to drive us deeper into thought, and will really challenge your ability to reason; What is the relationship between generations suppose to look like? From the ancestrial convictional beleifs your forefathers had all the way to your own relationship with your father and even your relationship with your children to come?
2 Timothy sheds light on this, but you must search out scripture completely to find what it is TRULY suppose to look like, while at the same time realizing what you WANT it to look like may be completely different.
There is an answer, but you need to study and find the answers to these first questions, then we can get to the bottom line and have a ‘real’ solution.
If God knows everything that happened in the past, that is happening now and that will happen, what exactly does our prayer change?
So, as I read through the new testament I get a great joy at the fact that I’m saved by grace and that nothing I do can help me get saved more or less apart from coming to Jesus and placing my life in His command. When I read ! John and some other passages of scripture I hear that these thing are written so that you may stop sinning (1John 2:1) Part of me hates this idea because it means that I’m not doing my best to live in righteousness, another part of me loves it because it tells me I have a greater goal to stive for. Any ideas what John and other writers are meaning by this?
I to have read the Shack! Great book! But so is the Bible…The message protrayed in The Shack on God’s love for us and the Idea of the unity in the Trinity is the same idea the Bible has given us for almost 2000 years. Why is it that it takes The Shack being written for us to get so excited over the idea of God’s love and desire for relationship? Just something to ponder.
In the Bible, it talks about the devil can appear to be an angel of light. How could all of the prophets and old testament people who saw angels really know that they were angels of God?
Any opinions on women being pastors of churches? Paul talks about women being silent in the church and it is said all over the Bible that men should be the head and leading because they were made for that role, yet I’ve been to churches where women are lead pastors. Is that wrong?
So recently I have been thinking a lot about predestination, something that I really wrestle with and am not well educated in enough to have an opinion one way or another. Like the verse Bri found earlier in this forum (”… and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” and “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son… And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.” Matthew 11:27 and Romans 8:29-30. So according to these passages we do not choose to follow him, he chooses us. So then its not free will right? Does it in actual text say that we have free will or is that a notion that is commonly believed but not backed up by text? I think what i struggle most about is the idea that God chooses who will and wont believe, doesnt sound like a loving God. I know though that I am measuring it by my (human) standards and God never said that he has to be fair, in fact we dont deserve it, but does he really Choose? And if he does choose why would we even go out and be evangelists? because God would have already chosen who would and wouldnt get into heaven, and we can’t change the will of God.
THis is a huge question that I know cant be answered fully or completely by man but any verses or thoughts would be great! Thanks!
Hello! My name is Ben and I will be helping to answer some of your questions and perhaps adding a few of my own.
The Devil
The question that Bri asked was how could people in the OT know if they were speaking to Satan or an angel. This is relavent today because spiritual warfare is real. There are a few things to consider. The first thing a person has to ask is: “Does the message I am receiving conflict with what I know to be true as recorded in scripture?” If the answer is “yes” then I would suspect a source other than God is giving the message. The second thing to remember is to TEST EVERYTHING. These two things go together. To test something it is important to look at the whole of scripture and to examin the message in the community of believers. In Acts, Luke wrote of a group of people called the Bereans who spent a lot of time searching the scriptures together to see if what they were being told was accurate or not. As I look back through the Bible the devil usually annouces who he is or it is clearly know by all involved. The shocking thing is that some people (Adam and Eve) still listened to him. That is how convincing he can be. When Jesus came He was also tempted by the devil and He resisted. Imagine what kind of trouble we would be in if Jesus had givin in to temptation like Adam and Eve did. Also remember that believers today have the Holy Spirit who is their counselor and guide.
As I was talking to a friend today he brought up some really great points that I didnt know the answer to and am very curious about. There were many more books that were cut out of the bible, how come? who decided what went in and what wasnt included? And I know that the scripture says that the word is God breathed but it is written by man, so how can we trust it completely, how do we know that all is true and good, and not intermixed with mans opinion?
So no one actually asked this question…yet lol. It is just a question that I have really wrestled with and have finally been seeking for myself the answer. The question is that if I am a native living in a strange country with no one to tell me about Jesus Christ how then do I have free will or the opportunity to except Christ, if I have never heard of him? I had heard the verse Romans 1:20 “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” So according to this scriptute people should be able to look around at creation and just know that there is a God. Ok I can understand that, however what I had an issue on was that even if we did look around and acknowledge that there is a God (metaphorically I am the native), I’ve still never heard the name Jesus Christ, i never knew that there was a Son that died for me, and the scripture clearly states, no one gets to the father except through the son, so am I condemned to hell because I have never heard of the Son that died for me? Then though I was reading a study done by McArthur and he says that “God holds all men responsible for their refusal to achknowledge what He has shown them of Himself in His creation. Even those who have never had an opportunity to hear the gospel have recieved a clear witness about the existance of God-and have suppressed it. If a person will respond to the revelation he has, even if it is solely natural revelation, God will provide some means for that personto hear the gospel.” So this shows that those who choose to believe in the creator simply by looking at his creation and recognizing him will have an opportunity to hear the gospel. He shares about the story of Philip and the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-39. (Good story!) This was so encouraging for me to hear. I hope that it brought some clarity to those of you that asked the same question as me. The other texts that McArthur refers to are Acts 10:1-48 and Acts 17:27.
So I’ve been studying James 5:12-20 and am a little confused with the calling the elders to pray over you so you can be healed and forgiven of your sins. I’ve known some people who have done this ands been healed of cancer and others who have done it and still died. Honestly the ones who where healed are ones who are not walking with Christ at this point and the ones who died left the most incredible testimony of suffering for Christ. What makes the difference and is there a certain illness that James is referring to? I know God’s plan is the best and there was a perfect reason he did things the way he did. I also know that illness is a result of mans choice not to trust God in the garden. But why does it seem like such a sure deal to getting healed?
Who Picks the Books?
I used to ask this question all the time! Many years ago my youth pastor gave me a copy of the Case for Christ. There are some good answers in there. My favorite reason is one that my father gave me. He said, if you were going to save one book and you had to choose between the Gosple of Thomas or Revelation and you knew that there was a chance of you being caught and killed while you were transporting the book, would you risk it all for a copy of Thomas or Revelation? The real selection was done in councils where all of respected elders hashed it out. Unfortunatly different faith traditions have a different idea of what the Bible is. If you take a look at a Catholic Bible you will see a whole mess of books between the OT and the NT. To further complicate the problem not every tradition views the Bible as importantly as we do. So if a person holds a low view of scripture they will be more willing to include less than outstanding content and pass it off as being inspired and not really care if it isn’t. Typically, the low view of scripture is compounded with a high view of tradition. Thinking back to my class on this last year there are some tests a book has to pass in order to be a part of the Biblical canon: 1) Must be writen by an apostle or someone who knew the apostle (Luke was not an apostle but hung out with Paul). 2) Universal acceptance by all Christian communities by a certain time. 3) Liturgical use. 4) Consistant message with the rest of the canon. 5) Must be inspired by God. If a book cannot pass the tests then it is discarded… WAIT WHAT ABOUT HEBREWS?!? The author of Hebrews is unknown but the book passes all of the other tests. Martin Luther didn’t like James and wanted it ejected from the canon. There has been a lot of controversy about canonisity but the basic Christian canon has been strong since the start. As far as the OT goes we can thank the Jews for preserving it. Although they order the books differently than we see in most Bibles!
One other thing to add to Ben’s response that is less important but still relevant is the time frame of when the New testament books were written. Books like the gospel of thomas where written much later.
so here’s something that’s been on my heart lately. we discussed it a little bit at heather’s last night, but i still didn’t feel like it was ever answered completely (since we were kinda jumping all over the place!)
at what point are we responsible for choosing God? here’s my analogy: if i am a baby, say one year old, i don’t have the brain capacity to even begin to fathom the concept of God.
so what if i die? do i go to hell because i didn’t accept Jesus into my life?
or am i granted the benefit of the doubt that i WOULD have chosen Him, had i understood the choice?
Just recently i have been going through revelation, and i was wondering if the book is written chronological order. I know you can’t really tell the future, but i was wondering what people’s thoughts on the subject are. Some sources say it is, and others say its not, so i would like to hear some opinions.
Also i was reading 2 Corinthians 12:2, and I read: “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.” What does it mean by “thrird heaven” in this passage?
Wow, lots of posts. This is awesome.
First of all, I wanted to let you know that some of these questions will be addressed directly at the conferences through workshops. There will be workshops on, amongst other topics: Election/Predestination, and whether or not Prayer changes God’s mind. Because of this, I thought I would pass on posting about them. Make sure you make it to the seminars. It should be great!
Let me address two of the questions that seem to sort of go together:
Those Who Have Never Heard the Gospel/Age of Accountability
One of you asked about a native who has never heard the gospel message. Another one asked about a child who cannot yet comprehend the gospel message. Both of these questions deal with a bigger question:
Can a person be saved without exercising faith in the message about Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection?
This is tough. Romans 1 clearly states that each and every person is without excuse before God. Romans 3 clearly states that we are all condemned before God. We have all sinned against God, and so we are all lost without the provision of Christ’s sacrifice.
One thing that we need to have in mind as we approach this question is this: God does not owe salvation to anyone. God does not owe anything to anyone. God is not obligated to give anyone a legitimate opportunity to hear and know the gospel message. We are all rightly alienated from him because of our own sin. When we speak about those who haven’t heard, we need to remember that God isn’t obligated to save anyone. If someone is lost, God is just. Any salvation that takes place is only mercy and grace, and not at all because God has to offer salvation in order to be righteous.
That said, God clearly longs for the salvation of each and every person (1 Timothy 2:4, Ezekiel 33:11). He said to Israel in Jeremiah 29:12-13 that he will be found by those who seek him with all their hearts. So, if a native person is seeking God with all of his heart, it seems that God would make himself known to that person. That seems to be within his character. There are great stories of missionaries showing up to places where tribal people have been waiting for someone to come and tell them about God. These are clear examples of God revealing himself to those who seek him.
But can a person be saved without hearing and responding to the message about Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection? Biblically, it certainly does not seem like it. John 14:6-7 and Acts 4:12 talk about there being no salvation apart from the name of Jesus Christ. If God is saving people who haven’t heard the gospel message, then he certainly has not let us know about it. And there is nothing in the Bible that would lead us to believe that he is doing this.
What about children? This is tough also. Again, the Bible does not speak clearly on this. Is there a certain age at which children are responsible to make a conscious decision to trust in Christ? Maybe. The Bible doesn’t tell us about it, though. Do children who die at an early age, then, go to hell? This is a tough question. It sounds so harsh and unjust.
Throughout Scripture we see God being an advocate for those who are needy. No child and no person is innocent, but children are certainly needy. God in his justice tends to be on the side of the poor, the ostracized, and the needy. Who is more needy than children?
Does this mean that all children who die will certainly go to heaven? In my conscience, I cannot say this for sure. Do I think that young children who die go to heaven? I have to admit that I do think so. It seems to be within God’s character that he would rescue them through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Can I assure someone that their child is in heaven? As much as it pains me (I don’t even want to write this), I don’t think I could assure them of it. I could say that I think their child is in heaven. But I could certainly assure them that God is just and merciful and that we can place ourselves in his loving and righteous hands.
TMC08 thanks you so much for all of these questions. Let’s keep them rolling. Even as the conference comes and goes, this site will remain. Matter of fact, it may even look at little different as we prepare for some exciting things in the future. With that said, I hope you have all had the chance to watch the video and read the links posted on our front page. It has to do with the tragic aftermath of the cyclone that hit Myanmar this past weekend. TMC08 is curious to hear your thoughts or questions about this and… what are some ways that we, as a momentum community can help.
See you in a few short days!
Third Heaven
I recently asked Moffat this question. If you look on further in that passage, Paul calls the third heaven paradise, which is where Jesus ascended (“Today you will be with me in paradise”). So ultimately He told me that some people consider the stars to be the “first heaven,” the galaxies to be the “second heaven,” and the actually realm of God to be the “third heaven.” Hope I answered your question.
Bri, way to remember our little lesson on the third heaven. You’ve got an awesome heart and mind. This weekend is going to be a sweet time together!
This might be my skeptic heart but it seems to me that our faith gets complicated with questions sometimes. Things that are in the Bible, if God so longs for all his children to return to him why is the bible so difficult to understand? I mean there is no doubt he has explained how to gain salvation, that part is clear, but things like children going to Heaven or others things that the Bible is never really clear on. They seem like such devisive questions within the church. Why arent things more straight forward and easier to understand?
Wow, so much to talk about. I am going to do two posts. This first one will tackle one major question. The next one will touch on several questions.
Why is the Bible So Hard to Understand?
Huge question, and a good one. Here are some thoughts.
1. There is a practical reality that we deal with when we read the Bible. We are living thousands of years after it has been written. There are cultural and historical realities that form a gap between our lives and those of the original writers and readers. While this certainly can be overcome, it is one of the reasons why things sometimes seem strange in the Bible.
2. Check out 1 Corinthians 2, especially verses 11-16. This passage talks about the fact that the spiritual realities in the Bible cannot be understood apart from the enlightening of the Holy Spirit. While we might be able to understand it on a base level, there are things that we will never understand if we are relying on our own strength. Please don’t think that I am saying that people who have a hard time understanding the Bible are not spiritual. I am simply saying that this is one extra factor for why it can be hard to understand.
3. The Bible really has been written to be understood. We can understand what is going on in the stories, the letters, and the prophecies. It takes work, though, just like it may take work to understand any literature that was written outside of our historical and cultural context. Don’t lose heart. If you keep at it, you will find yourself discovering exciting truths in the Bible. John MacMurray will be leading a workshop on this at the conference. It should be awesome!
4. The Bible does not teach exhaustively on every subject. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that all Scripture is God-breathed, and that it is useful for teaching, for rebuke, for correcting us, and for training us in righteousness so that we will be fully equipped for every good work. This does not mean that the Bible will tell us everything that we want to know. It does mean, though, that the Bible teaches us everything that we NEED to know in order to know God and live godly lives. Sometimes we may think that it would be wise for God to let us know certain things, and yet we don’t find information about it in the Bible.
This is hard for us, but we need to come to a point of trusting him in his wisdom and goodness. If the Bible doesn’t talk about it, then it is not something that God thinks it is vital for us to know about. In other words, we think it is more important for us to know about it than God does.
This doesn’t mean that God doesn’t care about the issue. It simply means that he doesn’t think we need to know much about it in order to live godly lives. Scripture talks about it being part of God’s glory to conceal a matter. At the end of John 20, Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who believe even though they do not see. Hebrews 11:6 says that it is impossible to please God without faith. These are hard things, but I think these are the kinds of things that we need to keep in mind when the Bible doesn’t speak to us clearly or exhaustively on an issue that is important to us.
The Dead Rising
2 Corinthians 5 and Philippians 1 indicate that when believers die, they are present with the Lord. At the same time, we all await a resurrection of our bodies (1 Corinthians 15, amongst many other passages throughout the OT and NT). Are we then with God in spiritual form until the resurrection? Are we fitted with a temporary body as we wait? It’s hard to say. What we know for sure is that we are, in some way, present with Christ before the resurrection, but that we excitedly anticipate the resurrection of our bodies.
Footwashing
I think this is what you were getting at, Joseph. In John 13 Jesus washes his disciples’ feet and then tells them to do this for each other. Check out the whole passage, especially his interaction with Peter. Jesus lets them know that they have all experienced an overall cleansing, but that the footwashing has something to do with more of a daily washing. Many think that he is saying that Christians have been forgiven once and for all, but that there is also a value to regular confession of sins. We confess to God, but we also can experience cleansing by confessing sins to one another. Thoughts?
As you mentioned, some denominations practice footwashing as a sacrament/ordinance, just like communion and baptism.
Prayer for Healing: James 5
There are lots of different takes on this. Here is one to think about. The passage talks about sins being forgiven in connection with the physical healing. We know that not all sickness and difficulty is a direct result of personal sin (Job, John 9). However, sometimes it is (1 Corinthians 11:27-32). It is possible that James is speaking to cases in which someone is suffering sickness as a direct result of personal sin, and thus is asking the elders to come and pray for him. Is it possible that in this case healing is promised? Maybe.
There are plenty of other takes on this passage, but that is one to think about.
You guys are all asking amazing questions. Just because I write on one, don’t think that the discussion on that subject is finished. Feel free to follow up, banter with me, or flat-out disagree. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Dan
Was David (and many other people mentioned in the OT) sinning when he took multiple wives? It says in Deutoronomy 17:17 that Kings should not have multiple wives, or was that just apart of culture at the time? Part of the reason I’m asking this to see if the fact that Joseph Smith had multiple wives is an adequate argument to prove that he wasn’t a godly man. But even so, it says pretty clearly in the Bible that marriage was made for one man and one woman, so why would God allow men like David to have so many wives?
Hey Yo!
I am reading 1 Peter right now and I am loving it and in chapter 3 verses 18-20 it talks about Christ being put to death and being made alive by the Spirit and then preaching to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built… and then in 1 Peter chapter 4 verse 6 it talks about the gospel being preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit… Is Jesus preaching to the dead and the spirits? if so, why? or am i misunderstanding it?
Hey, I have a question.
If a person is saved, he is always saved, right? But what if that person falls away, rejects God, and returns to a life of sin the rest of his days? What are the legitimate conclusions? There are three possibilities I can think of:
a) that person was never really saved
b) that person lost his salvation
c) that person is still saved and going to heaven
Anna Austin brought up a great point. Her point was when we bring up so many questions about the Bible, our faith almost seems to break down inside and whether we admit it or not, we begin to doubt and it eats at us and makes us lay awake at night worried and anxious.
I went through that season and was afraid to ask too many questions because I didn’t want to doubt God, but deep down I truly did doubt Him. A few things that helped me, Mtth 7:7 “Ask, and it WILL be given to you; seek, and you WILL find; knock, and it WILL be opened.” This verse is a PROMISE, and that really helped me because I knew if I kept reading scripture God would reveal Himself. It was still challenging, but He continues to show Himself to me, Just stick to it.
Alos, I believe everything in the Bible relates to God’s character. If you look at a person, their actions help define their character, right? In scripture, everything is a revelation of God’s character. When you begin to understand God is personable and has a character, you begin to interpret scripture differently. I use to look at scripture as rules, traditions and such, now I look at scripture as a story of a ‘King’ and His beloved people.
Faith is like a muscle, the more you work it out, the stronger it gets, yet it hurts. Building your faith hurts and is quite frankly scary. I feel like the biggest skeptic in the world, and I can say with absolute certainty, God has stayed true to what exists around me. Nothing around me is contrary to who He is. I have had to examine the way I am interpreting things, and also the position God is coming from when He reveals Himself, but when you look completely through questions, He is always true to what exists.
I recommend Winkey Pratney’s book “The Nature and Character of God,” and also Francis Schaeffer’s “The God Who is There.”
An attempt to Answer Jakes question: If God knows everything that happened in the past, that is happening now and that will happen, what exactly does our prayer change?
If I am holding a big fat baloon in one hand and a very sharp pin in the other, and God knows everything that has happened , is happening now, and everything that will happen in the future – what difference will it make if I poke the balloon with the pin – as opposed to not poking it? It makes a big loud difference.
So, here we go on some more rapid fire answers to questions that have come up.
Why didn’t the soldiers take Jesus? (John 7:30)
This scenario happens several times in the gospels wherre it speaks of Jesus escaping from the midst of soldiers or authorities. There seem to be two main factors when this happens. One factor is what is said in John 7:30, that his time had not yet come. In other words there seems to be a supernatural factor, in that the Father was keeping the people from seizing and capturing Jesus. The human factor that is often part of these situations is that the authorities who wanted to capture Jesus were afraid that the people would revolt if they did so. So the authorities wanted to deal with Jeuss in a way that didn’t result in them being on the bad side of the people.
Is it possible for Christians to have significant victory over sin (rephrasing of Josh’s question about 1 John 2:1)
We know that we will never be free from sin until we are glorified (1 Corinthians 15, Romans 8:28-30, 1 John 3:1-2). At the same time, Scripture speaks a lot about Christians having victory over sin. While we are not free from the presence of sin in our lives, we are truly free from sin’s power over us. In other words, WE NEVER HAVE TO SIN! It is not inevitable. We are able to win the victory over sin. Check out Romans 6. Why can we have victory over sin? Check out Galatians 5:16-26. In fact, Galatians 5:16 lets us know how we can stop sinning. The main factor is not accountability or putting up barriers. It is the power of the Holy Spirit.
Can Women Be Pastors?
Wow. Heavy question. I want to say that there are differences of opinion within good churches. I’ll throw out some of the key passages. 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 both talk about the qualifications for elders, and both say that an elder must be the husband of one wife. This seems to imply that elders must be men. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 then deals with the issue of women teaching or exercising authority over men, and Paul says that he does not allow this to happen. We might think that this is simply a cultural issue, but Paul’s reasoning for not having women teach or exercise authority over men in the local church goes back to creation and the Fall, so it seems hard to write it off as a cultural concern.
Many people, however, believe that these are just cultural issues, and that women are free to teach and pastor churches. Some would point to Galatians 3:28-29 when Paul says that there is now no male or female, slave or free, Jew or Gentile.
It is a question worth thinking through, and I won’t answer it because I think that this is one that the Christian community is currently struggling with. The bigger question is, “Do we see a biblical femininity and masculinity?” If God doesn’t want to have women pastoring churches, then he is not making some random rule. If that is the way he wants us to do things, then he believes that that is the best way for us to do things. Is there, then, some difference between how God made men and women that would inform the roles we have in churches and in other areas?
David’s Many Wives: Was That Okay?
Holy crap! This is a mine field. While I hate to admit it, the Old Testament does not seem to say anything to forbid polygamy. At the same time, every time we see it happening, there is strife and difficulty. Think of Jacob, Hannah, Abraham, David, Solomon, and so many others. Having many wives is not typically portrayed in a positive way. At the same time, it is never forbidden.
Then we move to the New Testament. Again, I don’t know that we clearly see polygamy forbidden. We do read that elders must be husbands of one wife. And there seems to be an assumption that polygamy is not going on.
In our culture, polygamy is illegal, so we certainly are not to marry more than one person. At the same time, if we were to go to Africa tomorrow, we could find polygamy to be a major issue. Do we go to an African who has three wives and tell him that he has to divorce two? What will happen to them financially? Hmmm.
So, I just raised more questions than I answered. Sorry. Deal with it.
Keep the questions coming. We promise that we will address every last one of them (except those that are directly addressed through workshops).
What is a PRACTICAL way to be that holy and perfect sacrifice that
Romans 12:1talks about? I know surrender is a huge part.
How do you help other people get into the word?? God is so amazing and I have friends that need help getting into the word and that ask me questions. I just dont know how to help them light thier flame, and what i can say to help them out. God has infulenced me in so many ways I want to help my friends at school to know how good and awesome He is. I want them to know. I want them to feel His presence but just dont know how to do it by myself.
~Isaiah 41:10~
Amber,
I think you are doing more than you think already! The first point is that ‘you’ can’t lite their flame, only God can lite it. If your friends are already asking questions, there is something lit in them somewhere and God is at work. Moreover, if they are asking ‘you’ questions that means they see something different in ‘you.’
Be yourself Amber, your friends will be drawn to ‘your’ love for God. Tell your friends what you love about God, show them what you have found in the Bible that has changed your life. The Bible is like a lion, you don’t need to help it, all you need to do is open the cage and it will do its own work.
Trust God enough to give Him your friends, all you can do is be yourself with them and they will see God in you. Don’t be shy to proclaim your God to them, only tell them what He has done in YOU, that is what they will ultimately be drawn to.
So I have established that there is predestination but I was wondering if EVERYTHING was predestined? Keels said that God did dictate some of the bible but not all of it and is that the same as the way life is? for example: is there only 1 man for 1 woman? Can we marry the wrong person?
For those of you who are asking questions about the rapture and the Tribulation period, I would recommend reading the book The Rapture Question Answered: Plain and Simple by Robert D. Van Kampen. This book presents the Pre-Wrath View very clearly.
Praying for Healing
It seems clear in James that the healing mentioned here is in relation to physical healing. However, the Lord has led me to this passage as I have ministered to students over the last two years, but the healing has been focused on an emotional healing.
Let me explain. I’ve been teaching teens on forgiving someone who has wounded them. Many teens have been wounded — a lot of them by a family member, and they’ve not gotten over it. Rather than forgiving and showing kindness to those who have hurt them some return “evil with evil” in their words, attitudes, and actions. Such a response results in a lack of healing emotionally.
Applying James 5:16, I’ve led students to first confess every sin of returning “evil with evil” — whether that be words, attitudes, or actions — as the Holy Spirit reveals them. Once sin is confessed, then I led them to repent of the sin of “evil for evil” by returning good to the person who hurt them — see Luke 6:27-28. Now these students were in a place where godly men and women could pray for emotional healing on behalf of these students. It’s been amazing to see the power of the Holy Spirit heal the emotional wounds and hurts of people who first confessed their own sins of “evil for evil” and truly forgive by loving and showing kindness to someone who hurt them.
For those of you who are asking questions about the book of Revelation, the rapture and the Tribulation period, I would recommend reading the book The Rapture Question Answered: Plain and Simple by Robert D. Van Kampen. This book presents the Pre-Wrath View very clearly.
In the Bible Jesus says “whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father In Heaven.” But question, if you denied God because the consequences were losing your family and you turely asked for forgiveness would God forgive you?
So here is an epistomological one:
How can we know God’s existence, or maybe more general, can we know God’s existence? The Bible says many times of our life by faith and not sight, so where is some more Scriptures for this?
Can a Person Lose Their Salvation?
This question was just brought up be Hannah (what about disowning him), and it was also asked a while ago. Dan Keels says Absolutely. I think he was kidding, though.
So, I will throw out some passages and make some comments, but I don’t think I will answer this in a way that brings the issue to a close (especially since it has been debated for so many centuries).
There are many passages that lead us to the conclusion that we can never sin so much that we are beyond God’s grace. Scripture nowhere tells us that we should ask the question, “Will God forgive me or take me back if I ask him?” The answer is always a resounding YES! The invitation is always to come to God for grace and forgiveness. This is evidence, first of all, by the lack of any passages that would tell us, “Don’t seek God. You have gone too far.” It is also evidence by the constant invitation to come to Christ for salvation (Revelation 22:17).
There are also several passages that indicate to us that, once we are saved, there is no way that we can be lost. Here are some examples: Romans 8:28-30, John 10:27-30, John 6:37-40, 1 Peter 1:3-5). Christians are not meant to go through their lives wondering if they are in or out with God. God gives grace to all who ask.
Finally, there are passages that lead us to believe that if a person abandons the faith, that person is lost. Examples are Matthew 10:32-33, Hebrews 6:1-8, 2 Timothy 2:11-13. These passages are strong warnings against abandoning the faith. Some people think that those who abandon the faith were never really saved. Others think that they have lost their salvation. I’ll leave it to you to discover what the Bible says.
So, if someone abandons the faith, can they come back? Of course. The invitation is always there. No one is ever beyond asking God for forgiveness and receiving it. The question, though, is whether a person who abandons the faith will have their mind so darkened that they will never have the capacity to come back.
My advice, and I believe the Bible’s advice, don’t abandon the faith. God will not abandon you. Abide in Christ (John 15). If you mess up, ask for forgiveness. God loves to forgive our sin.
in rev. 12:6 is the woman simbolizing isreal? And do you think that the 1260 days is part of the tribulation? Is that when Isreal will be protected?
Do you think we are closer to the end times now, because of the war?
What are some of the signs we should be looking for about the end times?
Romans 12:1: Surrender
Romans 12:1 talks about offering our bodies as living sacrifices to God. This is our true act of worship to him. We don’t offer a lamb or a goat. We offer ourselves, our bodies, our whole lives to him.
Obviously, this is really tough to do. Some people have said, “The problem with a living sacrifice is that it keeps crawling off the altar.” This is really true. We may authentically offer our lives to God, and yet we keep taking them back. It is as if we have given Jesus the keys to drive our car, but we keep grabbing at the steering wheel and going wherever we want.
Why is it so hard? Well, while we have been set free from the power of sin, we still carry around the flesh, our sinful inclination. Galatians 5:16-18 says that the Holy Spirit and the flesh are waging war against each other. We are conflicted.
How do we win the victory. Galatians 5:16 says that if we walk in the Spirit, we will not carry out the desires of the flesh. So, if we walk with the Holy Spirit, we will not continue to grab the steering wheel. We will carry out the surrender and let God lead.
How do we walk in the Spirit? Let God’s word dwell in you. Read it, think about it, memorize it (Colossians 3:15-17). Confess sin (1 John 1:9-10). Dwell on things that matter to God (Philippians 4:8). Take practical steps to lay down your life. This may have a lot to do with how you spend money, how you spend time, and how you interact with others.
It will always be a struggle, but there is progress to be had.
I’ve always wondered at some details of the bible, not for nitpicking at, but things I would be interested in knowing. You know how in Genesis it says that there were giants in the land, well where did they come from? How come they were around and what came of them, if anything?
Do we really have freedom of choice if God already knows in advance every action or decision we will ever make?
Does God Predestine Every Action?
This also goes along with Liana’s question about whether or not we have freedom of choice. This is one of those great questions that has been discussed for centuries. That said, there is no way we will solve it on this forum. Here is what we can try to resolve, though: HOW DOES GOD WANT US TO RESPOND TO WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT FREE WILL AND PREDESTINATION?
The Bible clearly teaches election and predestination. It clearly teaches the God is sovereign and that he is in control of all things. At the same time, the Bible clearly teaches that human being have legitimate choices and that our choices are significant. We are led to clearly believe that our actions matter, that they make a difference, and that they even impact God’s decisions when we pray to him (Genesis 18).
So, how do we respond to the doctrine of election? Well, one passage to check out is Romans 9-10. We are to respond with humility and gratitude. If we ever say, “God chose me, so I am better than unbelievers,” we are totally missing the point. We are to be grateful and humbled by his grace. However, we are never led to believe that we are to respond to election by acting as if our actions are meaningless. They are not! If they were, then why would we be called to evangelize and love others and forgive and give to the poor. These decisions make a difference.
The fact that our decisions make a difference, however, is never to lead to pride in our lives. Any good thing that we do is only because God has empowered us to do something good.
Make sense? A little? It is not so much an answer as help on how we respond to these doctrines that often seem to conflict.
So, people of the Old Testament, how were they saved?
Jesus said there is only one way to the Father and that is through Him. During their time Christ had not died and resurrected. But, Chirst also died for ALL sins, those in the past, now and future.
Can you explain this paradox?
I cannot wait to see Enric and his group play and sing. It’s gonna be awesome.
The leader workshop wa way tight. The leader was a boss. He showed us what it means and how to be a leader.
I did the missonal theology workshop and it really challenged me about my view on missions. I was mistaken thinking the workshop is about going overseas and doing ministry work. Our ministry work is every day of our life, and everywhere we go. Jesus has entrusted us with the work that he started on the cross. This is to proclaim the gospel, and to proclaim it in word AND deed, not either/or. We have been sent by the Father, who sent the Son, who sent the Holy Spirit to us and for us so that we could continue the work of Jesus Christ. We should no longer focus on ourselves but reach out to those in need!
Can we still be in touch to Momentum or is it like a sessional thing? Like will I still get texts from Momentum? And will we still be able to leave comments and other questions and comments on this page?
My friend is 15 and got pregnant but later had a miscarriage. She is really sad but is comforted by the fact that it is in heaven. Is that true? It was only like 3 weeks old, but will it still be in heaven, like as a baby?
best confrence ever
How Were People Saved in the OT?
You are right in saying that no one is ever saved except through faith in Jesus Christ, and his sacrificial death and resurrection. At the same time, people clearly were saved in the OT. How did it work, then, that God forgave the sins of people in the OT through the sacrifice of Christ that had not yet happened? Romans 3:25-26: “. . .Christ Jesus, whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in his blood through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because in the forbearance of God he passed over the sins previously committed.” In other words, God patiently bore with the sins of people in the OT, looking forward to the sacrifice that would one day be made for them. The OT sacrifices never really took away sin, but God decided to withhold his wrath and instead pour it out on his Son.
People in the OT and the NT are saved through faith. People in the OT did not know all the in’s and out’s of how God would save them and forgive them, but those who believed God were counted as righteous (Romans 4:1-6).
If God is good and he knows everything, why did he create Satan, knowing that he would become evil later?
“Let’s Talk About Sex, Baby” was really inspirational because it talked about how God doesn’t hate sex and it isn’t a sin. It is only a sin if you have sex and/or sexual relationships outside of marrige. I really liked all of the Momentum Conference and I really hope you have it every year from now on because it was extreamly inspirational. It toally changed some of my views, but in a good way : )
What’s different about this time? I’ve met and seen so many pastors kids who fell off the deep end, and I considered them to be really on fire for God. How do you know if you’re just faking it?
Im having trouble grasping the concept of pre destination. If we have a free will how do we do something right if we are pre destined to do something else?
MOMENTUM IS THE BOMB!!!!!
Besides different theological views and other things regarding Mormonism….can a Mormon be saved if he/she believes in Jesus? It says in John 3:36 that if you believe in the Son then you have eternal life…but is this only to some extent?
Hey guys great conference, I am totally fired up, I hope you get another one started next year. I have a question in regards to the session titled “Reading the Bible on its terms?” At the end of the session John said that because of our 21st century reading, we don’t read the bible in the right context. So since we are seeing the bible in the wrong context, how do we (us as followers of Jesus, and readers of the word), read the bible in the right context to get the real and full meaning out of every verse?
well i think the definition of “Jesus” and also the base of salvation – only way to the Father is through Jesus – so if anyone believes in jesus…but doesn’t believer He is the only way…than they are not fully believing in who Jesus says he is
Brittany, now that the conference is over… things are really just getting started. The website will be here for you and others to continue to ask questions. The text messages will also continue and hopefully as a reminder to what we experienced this weekend. And one more importantly for us all to remain strong in Christ. We also will be and have begun updated the page contents. In other words, we will be switching out pages from schedule to other interesting ways for us to continue to walk together as a community. Thanks for asking the question. We love that you are here with us on the site.
this is awesome to see so many people that want to learn more about our savior! it’s so inspiring!
i wanted to put in a few thoughts about Jordan’s question on losing your salvation.
that’s one i’ve struggled with too. i used to be in a class on sunday mornings lead by Don Croze, and we spent a full hour and a half debating and talking about it. here’s what his thoughts were:
once you have accepted Christ as your savior, you have a clean record. each day your sins ate washed away.
the only way to lose your salvation is if you commit the unpardonable sin (i’m not sure he ever told me exactly what that is…) which must be committed i the presence of the person of Jesus Christ. therefore, you cannot lose your salvation because Jesus is not here, and thus we cannot commit the unpardonable sin.
i’d love a leader’s opinion or thoughts on this as well.
even having Don’s insight, i’m still a bit confused myself!
i’m not sure why that random smiley face apeared in my thing
but whatever…
how do we witness to people that do not want to hear the gospel????
i’m kinda on the same page as josh and michael as far as predestination.
i just can’t seem to wrap my head around how we can truly have free will when God already knows everything we’re going to do.
and i’ve always taken comfort in knowing that God knows who my husband is and where he is and that he has this special guy picked out for me. but what if i marry the wrong guy? what if something happens and i never meet the guy that God picked out for me?
If God is every where all the time, why do we need churches?
Why do we feel closer to God at certain times in certain places?
Can Satan read the Bible? Do you think he knows the prophecies of the end times and God’s plans for the future that are in the Bible?
Does God have a plan for when everyone is going to die and go to heaven to be with him and Jesus Christ? Does he know when their time will come?
Hey Guys! This is Jake Dockter. Morgan and I led the rad discussion on THEOLOGY OF UGLINESS and we had an amazing time! I was amazed at all of your insight and input. I would love to keep the discussion going on WHAT IS BEAUTY? WHAT IS UGLY? AND CAN GOD BE FOUND IN BOTH PLACES?
If you have any more thoughts, questions, ideas…please post them.
Jake I just wanted you and Morgan did a great job of unpaction beauty and uglyiness. Because in the church we can glamorize mostly beauty and only paint the clear sky’s looking out from a ledge at the coast next to a light house. Gave me a better mind set when I went to Mike Thibodeuax for the second workshop. Helping run momentum was putting me in a funk and I knew it was ugly and I wasn’t understanding completely that some time life is ugly like that. You have to find the beauty and the concepts in art and in life, when your getting torn down. Then I went to Mike session and I’d could almost tell you straight out it was life altering. I’d just like to say thanks again you guys were incredible and you re-energized my mindset with ideas that broke the mold of a clean cut Jesus in white.
Thanks again it was fun
Scott
Lets chat about art! Who are youre favorite artists/poets/musicians?
why?
Jake, already told you this but I loved what you and Morgan brought. Got me thinking a lot and I liked it so much that as I checked out workshops throughout the morning I ended up in your class twice. Would love to see how this topic could be talked about more in the Church with Christians. Thanks bro for all you did to make the weekend happen
-Ryan
Please check out the ARTS section of THE NEW INTELLECT.
It is located in JESUS LOVES YOUR BRAIN!
My response to the EMERGENT discussion.
The question was asked about what is the emergent church/ what are thoughts on it.
Ryan Moffat answered and I will respond to the initial question as well as Ryans response.
The Emergent church is : __________________. This questions is hard to answer. It is NOT a denomination. There is no common theological basis. You can have someone like MARK DRISCOLL of MARS HILL in Seattle who is pretty conservative and highly controversial in his MASCULINITY MOVEMENT and you can have people like MARCUS BORG or BRIAN MCLAREN. These three people would have very divergent ideas, but are all considered emergent.
Also, the churches that label themselves so could look very different from the others.
By and Large, here is a definition.
1. Who take the life of Jesus as a model to live (life as spiritual journey). 2. And who transform the secular realm. 3. As they live highly communal lives. 4. Welcome those who are outsiders. 5. Share Generously. 6. Participate. 7. Create. 8. Lead without control (unity in diversity). 9. And function together in spiritual activities.
Following the teachings of Christ is huge. These are often identified as social teaching that is spiritual as well as connected to care for the poor, widows. The emergent church often aligns with social justice activities, following Jesus to make a difference. see: Ron Sider (RICH CHRISTIANS IN AN AGE OF HUNGER) Shane Claiborne (IRRESISTIBLE REVOLUTION, JESUS FOR PRESIDENT) Rob Bell also often speaks on this issue.
Communal living is also a new development, with THE NEW MONASTICISM, see Claiborne again. Ekkelsia project is also involved in these ideas.
I agree with Ryan on the positives. The hunger for whats REAL! The quest for truth is a real hunger, and not just philosopphical truth but every-day-make-a-differnece-truth.
I however disagree with Ryan’s claim that the Emergent church “forgets to remember the saints who have gone before them. ”
The emergent church, especially in the NEW MONASTIC branches is highly interested in looking at the ancient practices of the church. Especially following the model of ACTS more closely. The emergent church is highly connected to the traditions, just not the american evangelical structure. The emergent movement often looks to more liturgical and eastern practices. Some say it verges on christian mysticism. Many emergent authors/ leaders/ even lay men are highly interested in the writings of Bonhoeffer on discipleship and community, Yoder on the social call and many older theologians. Emergents also often look to writers beyond the evangelical thread to catholic, eastern and non-modern americans.
Also, though no church is perfect and there can be a heavy excitement about newness and passion for the new ideas. it is connected to the past. There is also a huge emphasis on social justice and interaction. Shane Claibornes church in Philly is highly involved in community outreach. Rob Bell often promotes and extolls his congeregants to be IN the community. JUSTICE ADVOCACY AND COMPASSION are highly regarded. it may not always be done right though.
The emergent church is trying to get away from the theology of america to the theology of christ. They see the move towards safe, white middle class christians living in bubbles and in mega churches as a dangerous move more towards comfor than christ. Emergents seek to follow the teachings of Christ, even the tough uncomfortable ones that challenge us.
This is in response to Amy’s post.
The Unpardonable Sin is brought up in Matthew 12:22-33. In the passage, Jesus casts out the spirit of a demon-possessed man who is blind and mute (this brings up another question of demon possession, because in our modern civ we view blind and mutes as victims of medical problems, not spirits). The Pharisees than attribute this work of the Holy Spirit to the Devil. This is the Unpardonable Sin (which coincidently and vacuously acronymizes as US, but I believe some of “us” aren’t unpardonable:)).
It was then brought up that we can commit the US because Jesus isn’t with us anymore. But verse 32 says that any man who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. Thus, the US is not concerned with slandering the name of Christ. But rather says, “anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit wil not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
This clearly says that we can still commit the Unpardonable Sin.
AN ADDENDUM TO THE EMERGENT DISCUSSION
I found some good further thoughts on the idea of the emergent church forgetting “to remember the saints”.
I again, and still disagree.
The emergent church is highly interested in the truths and lessons of the past.
Look at Shane Claibornes new book JESUS FOR PRESIDENT most of it is looking at the traditions of the early church fathers and their reactions against empire and war.
Many emergent church leaders also use the church creeds as a staring block. Karen Ward of CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES cited THE NICENE CREED as their purpose and beliefs.
Many emergents are also involved in the discussion and ideas of ANCIENT-FUTURE.
This is connected to the idea of learning from the past and connecting it to now, and sustaining it through tomorrow.
check it out.
When I said, “It was then brought up that we can commit the US because Jesus isn’t with us anymore” insert “NOT” before commit. Woops!